WEBVTT 00:00:00.958 --> 00:00:02.583 [Narrator:] Looking for fascinating conversations 00:00:02.583 --> 00:00:04.250 with industry thought leaders. 00:00:06.208 --> 00:00:07.666 Want to get the inside scoop 00:00:07.666 --> 00:00:10.666 from local legends? 00:00:10.708 --> 00:00:12.833 Interested in the stories behind the stories 00:00:12.833 --> 00:00:15.833 from celebrated visionaries? 00:00:17.750 --> 00:00:18.958 This is your home 00:00:18.958 --> 00:00:21.958 for the best our university has to offer. 00:00:22.166 --> 00:00:25.166 Welcome to We Are IU. 00:00:30.625 --> 00:00:32.541 [Scott Shackelford:] In the world of high stakes research, 00:00:32.541 --> 00:00:36.375 we often talk about breakthroughs in terms of molecules or machines. 00:00:36.375 --> 00:00:40.500 But some of the most profound barriers to human progress aren't physical. 00:00:40.708 --> 00:00:41.875 They're social. 00:00:41.875 --> 00:00:46.250 Nearly every family in Indiana and across the globe is touched by mental illness. 00:00:46.250 --> 00:00:50.625 Yet a silent wall of stigma often stands between suffering and support. 00:00:51.083 --> 00:00:55.500 For decades, one scholar has been leading the charge to tear down that wall. 00:00:56.166 --> 00:01:02.458 Today, on the We Are IU podcast, we sit down with Doctor Bernice Pescosolido. 00:01:02.458 --> 00:01:06.541 She's an IU distinguished professor, a pioneer in socio 00:01:06.541 --> 00:01:10.500 medical sciences, and the visionary behind the Irsay Institute 00:01:10.708 --> 00:01:14.875 who was recently honored as part of the IU Bloomington for the Glory initiative. 00:01:15.083 --> 00:01:19.208 Her work doesn't just analyze society, it re tools it for the better. 00:01:19.583 --> 00:01:23.666 Long before mental health became a national headline, Bernice was 00:01:23.666 --> 00:01:28.375 studying how stigma forms, how it spreads, and how it can be dismantled. 00:01:28.458 --> 00:01:31.500 Her research is not just changing conversations, it's 00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:34.500 changing systems, policies and lives. 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:36.500 Welcome to the podcast, Bernice. 00:01:36.500 --> 00:01:37.500 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well thank you Scott. 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:39.416 It's really great to be here. 00:01:39.416 --> 00:01:41.625 [Scott Shackelford:] The pleasure is all ours. 00:01:41.625 --> 00:01:45.458 Now you've spent decades researching mental health stigma. 00:01:46.041 --> 00:01:48.458 When when you use the word stigma, 00:01:48.458 --> 00:01:51.416 what does that actually mean in everyday life? 00:01:51.416 --> 00:01:53.125 I think we have some sense probably. 00:01:53.125 --> 00:01:54.875 But what do you mean by it? 00:01:54.875 --> 00:01:56.791 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well, usually when we talk about stigma, 00:01:56.791 --> 00:01:58.750 we're talking about a mark. 00:01:58.791 --> 00:02:02.375 It's it's a societal constructed mark of difference. 00:02:02.916 --> 00:02:06.000 And the problem with stigma is that that mark 00:02:06.250 --> 00:02:10.041 then denotes somebody who should be devalued. 00:02:10.541 --> 00:02:13.958 And the result of being devalued in society means that 00:02:14.333 --> 00:02:17.750 you there's prejudice you encounter and discrimination. 00:02:18.125 --> 00:02:21.083 Regarding opportunities, even even length of 00:02:21.083 --> 00:02:24.416 life is affected by whether or not you have a stigmatized condition. 00:02:25.458 --> 00:02:27.666 [Scott Shackelford:] And that comes in just so many different forms, I'm sure. 00:02:27.666 --> 00:02:29.375 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Because I'm afraid it does. 00:02:29.375 --> 00:02:32.583 There are many things at this point in our society that, 00:02:33.208 --> 00:02:36.250 that are different, that we really don't want to embrace. 00:02:36.250 --> 00:02:39.250 But you know, the human species is incredibly varied. 00:02:39.250 --> 00:02:44.333 And so the idea that we should all fit one mode really doesn't work for us. 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:45.708 [Scott Shackelford:] That's fair. 00:02:45.708 --> 00:02:46.458 You know, that's fair. 00:02:46.458 --> 00:02:50.500 And, you know, particularly related to mental health stigmas. 00:02:50.500 --> 00:02:51.375 I was curious, 00:02:51.375 --> 00:02:54.958 why do you think there's such persistence there, even as being, 00:02:55.041 --> 00:02:56.333 brought awareness around 00:02:56.333 --> 00:02:59.583 the variety of mental health conditions that just increased over the years. 00:03:00.208 --> 00:03:02.666 [Bernice Pescosolido:] I think there's still a fear of contagion, 00:03:02.666 --> 00:03:05.125 and there's a fear of violence. 00:03:05.541 --> 00:03:08.541 And, you know, mental illness is not contagious. 00:03:08.750 --> 00:03:12.500 There's just no evidence to suggest that, in fact, even the genetic 00:03:12.500 --> 00:03:13.791 evidence is pretty weak. 00:03:14.875 --> 00:03:15.625 But, you know, 00:03:15.625 --> 00:03:19.333 we it's it's it's such a mysterious illness that I think 00:03:19.500 --> 00:03:23.750 when we don't understand something, then we mark it is different. 00:03:24.083 --> 00:03:28.541 And so we have not made the progress in the science of mental health, 00:03:28.791 --> 00:03:33.708 mental illness, or even addiction that we have with cancer and heart disease. 00:03:33.958 --> 00:03:39.458 And so it primes us as a species to label people with mental illness 00:03:39.458 --> 00:03:44.000 as some people to be separated from or to be wary of. 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:50.750 I think is the case, which is so untrue because the prevalence rates are so high 00:03:51.166 --> 00:03:54.416 and many of us will have in our lifetime 00:03:54.583 --> 00:03:57.791 maybe just an episode of mental health problems 00:03:58.166 --> 00:04:02.875 or, you know, maybe even have a, you know, a lifetime of, 00:04:03.083 --> 00:04:06.083 you know, low level depression or have, 00:04:06.625 --> 00:04:09.250 you know, anxiety and really not realize 00:04:09.250 --> 00:04:12.250 that this is something that could be better for you 00:04:12.375 --> 00:04:15.500 if you understood that anxiety can be treated. 00:04:16.041 --> 00:04:19.958 So it's really a quandary for us because it's so prevalent. 00:04:19.958 --> 00:04:22.500 And yet people don't recognize 00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:25.916 that they're starting to more so we have seen change over time. 00:04:26.750 --> 00:04:30.125 But one of the reasons we haven't made that progress as well, 00:04:30.125 --> 00:04:33.500 the prevalence is the same as heart disease and cancer. 00:04:33.833 --> 00:04:36.833 The research money that goes into this, 00:04:36.958 --> 00:04:39.541 is about one tenth of those. 00:04:39.541 --> 00:04:40.541 [Scott Shackelford:] Oh, is that right? 00:04:40.541 --> 00:04:41.000 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Yeah. 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:42.625 [Scott Shackelford:] And oh my gosh, 00:04:42.625 --> 00:04:45.083 [Bernice Pescosolido:] you know, if we had a mental health moonshot 00:04:45.083 --> 00:04:49.958 the way that we had a cancer moonshot, we probably would have gotten a lot farther. 00:04:49.958 --> 00:04:53.000 But even the research is stigmatized. 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:54.000 I mean, when I tell 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.041 people that I study mental health, they kind of back away just a little bit, 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:00.583 and they're like, oh, or, 00:05:00.583 --> 00:05:03.375 you know, they think it's kind of weirdly interesting. 00:05:03.375 --> 00:05:09.625 But for me, it's really the heart of where theologies can be of help 00:05:10.166 --> 00:05:14.333 because it really is a situation where I had a 00:05:14.375 --> 00:05:17.791 this group in Utah did a study using AI 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:22.125 and large language models, and they were predicting, you know, 00:05:22.125 --> 00:05:26.250 what are the things associated with five major mental disorders? 00:05:26.708 --> 00:05:31.000 And they had, you know, every kind of data you can think of, you know, biological, 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:35.333 genetic blood work, social factors, you know, background, etc.. 00:05:35.625 --> 00:05:39.083 And in every one of those, they found that 3 to 5 00:05:39.541 --> 00:05:42.541 characteristics could predict each mental illness. 00:05:42.666 --> 00:05:44.875 And they were all social factors. 00:05:44.875 --> 00:05:45.541 [Scott Shackelford:] Is that right? 00:05:45.541 --> 00:05:46.500 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Yeah [Scott Shackelford:] I see it. 00:05:46.500 --> 00:05:48.916 I don't think a lot of people really appreciate that, to be honest. 00:05:48.916 --> 00:05:49.791 [Bernice Pescosolido:] And well, you know, 00:05:50.750 --> 00:05:51.375 where we want to 00:05:51.375 --> 00:05:54.375 believe everything's mechanical and biological. 00:05:54.583 --> 00:05:56.333 [Bernice Pescosolido:] And be fixed with a pill [Scott Shackelford:] right 00:05:56.333 --> 00:05:58.541 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well, I think there are very effective 00:05:58.541 --> 00:06:00.750 medications for mental health problems. 00:06:01.125 --> 00:06:04.250 And yet, you know, we haven't had a really new drug. 00:06:04.250 --> 00:06:05.875 In a while. 00:06:05.875 --> 00:06:06.500 [Scott Shackelford:] That's right. 00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:07.000 That's right. 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:09.833 Where we had, Richard DiMarchi on the podcast not long ago. 00:06:09.833 --> 00:06:11.500 And, you know, there's been amazing, 00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:15.500 you know, obviously innovations that he's helped to pioneer in so many ways. 00:06:15.500 --> 00:06:17.833 But to your point, Bernice, I don't think we're going to see it. 00:06:17.833 --> 00:06:19.916 We're going to be for mental health anytime soon. 00:06:19.916 --> 00:06:22.875 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well, not not with, you know, I think with 00:06:22.875 --> 00:06:23.791 [Scott Shackelford:] Not with these funding levels 00:06:23.791 --> 00:06:24.750 [Bernice Pescosolido:] steps as well. 00:06:24.750 --> 00:06:27.958 You know, we director of the NIH, you, you know, 00:06:28.625 --> 00:06:33.500 got rid of all funding except for looking at, you know, sort of biomarkers. 00:06:33.500 --> 00:06:37.000 Well, turns out there really aren't any really good biomarkers for mental health. 00:06:37.875 --> 00:06:40.916 You know, I, I'm really I mean, I'd be really excited 00:06:40.916 --> 00:06:44.875 to see somebody like Richard DiMarchi turn his idea about protein 00:06:44.875 --> 00:06:48.333 folding into mental health, like we really don't have 00:06:48.333 --> 00:06:52.000 we haven't unlocked it the way he unlocked, you know, GLP-1, 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:56.208 which is such an exciting thing and for the longest time, obesity. 00:06:56.333 --> 00:06:58.708 But it still is stigmatized. 00:06:58.708 --> 00:07:03.833 And, you know, but now with GLP-1, it looks like, you know, the stigma 00:07:03.833 --> 00:07:09.208 which is usually associated with, you know, sloth, laziness over eating. 00:07:09.208 --> 00:07:14.250 Right now, we know that GL-1 could correct the people's metabolism 00:07:14.750 --> 00:07:17.750 and hopefully that will decrease the stigma attached. 00:07:17.875 --> 00:07:20.750 But we have to be careful because there might now 00:07:20.750 --> 00:07:25.083 be a new stigma to people who don't choose to use it. 00:07:26.958 --> 00:07:29.458 I think that in America we 00:07:29.458 --> 00:07:33.000 tend to think that people don't choose, but often they don't have access. 00:07:33.333 --> 00:07:35.041 [Scott Shackelford:] That's right, that's right. 00:07:35.041 --> 00:07:37.958 And I was curious to what, what does your research tell us about 00:07:37.958 --> 00:07:42.125 how public attitudes toward mental health have actually changed over time? 00:07:42.125 --> 00:07:44.375 As you say, we have a long way to go, needless to say. 00:07:44.375 --> 00:07:46.791 But has there been some positive progress? 00:07:46.791 --> 00:07:49.500 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Absolutly, So we have good news and bad news. 00:07:49.500 --> 00:07:54.291 We started these studies in 1996, and at that point, things 00:07:54.291 --> 00:07:58.500 didn't look very good to be honest, in terms of how people could recognize 00:07:58.500 --> 00:08:02.250 mental health problems, you know, what they thought they were caused by. 00:08:02.541 --> 00:08:06.041 And in our now 24 years of studying this, 00:08:06.208 --> 00:08:09.583 we have found that Americans have become much more sophisticated 00:08:10.041 --> 00:08:12.625 about understanding mental health and its 00:08:12.625 --> 00:08:15.625 underlying biological, chemical, social roots. 00:08:15.958 --> 00:08:17.458 So that's very exciting. 00:08:17.458 --> 00:08:22.500 And we found that both, by 2020 for adults disorders. 00:08:22.791 --> 00:08:26.000 And in our recent study, which we're still working on, the numbers, 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.875 but it looks like with a 20 year lag, Americans now have gotten there 00:08:29.875 --> 00:08:32.000 regarding child and adolescent disorders. 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.708 Like, think they're better at recognizing them. 00:08:34.708 --> 00:08:39.416 They're better at understanding their biological roots and their social roots. 00:08:39.416 --> 00:08:43.541 And, less likely to see this as a moral failing. 00:08:43.625 --> 00:08:46.208 So yeah, that's really good. 00:08:46.208 --> 00:08:50.958 The problem is that those changes in knowledge 00:08:50.958 --> 00:08:55.166 and recognition have not translated into changes in stigma. 00:08:55.583 --> 00:09:00.625 They exclusion idea is still or that, you know, the idea that, people 00:09:00.625 --> 00:09:04.541 are unwilling to interact with people that are described with these disorders. 00:09:04.541 --> 00:09:06.958 We don't even label them. 00:09:06.958 --> 00:09:08.291 We just, 00:09:08.291 --> 00:09:11.458 you know, say, here's a person like, what do you think is going on 00:09:11.458 --> 00:09:12.291 with this person? 00:09:12.291 --> 00:09:14.000 And why do you think they have that problem? 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.333 And then, you know, for the child study would be we would say 00:09:17.333 --> 00:09:20.375 things like, you know, would you that, you know, would 00:09:20.625 --> 00:09:24.416 would you how willing are you to have this kid in your kid's class? 00:09:24.791 --> 00:09:27.041 What about in their sports team? 00:09:27.041 --> 00:09:28.958 What about be best friends with them? 00:09:29.916 --> 00:09:31.583 One of the things we found in 00:09:31.583 --> 00:09:35.125 all of our studies, whether it's adults or kids or what, which disorder? 00:09:35.458 --> 00:09:37.875 The more intimate the setting, right? 00:09:37.875 --> 00:09:41.541 So the closer the contact, the more rejection, the more stigma, 00:09:41.541 --> 00:09:43.166 the more exclusion. 00:09:43.166 --> 00:09:46.375 And that's really unfortunate because we now 00:09:46.375 --> 00:09:49.958 know across all areas of health that connectedness really matters. 00:09:50.375 --> 00:09:53.375 Connectedness helps us, helps us be healthy. 00:09:54.416 --> 00:09:57.291 As long as there's not too much connectedness, because then it flips 00:09:57.291 --> 00:09:58.041 the other way. 00:09:58.041 --> 00:10:02.166 So it's sort of that middle ground of being accepted. 00:10:02.166 --> 00:10:06.041 And having close connections is really important for all our health 00:10:06.041 --> 00:10:07.541 and mental health is right. 00:10:07.541 --> 00:10:09.041 [Scott Shackelford:] Absolutely. 00:10:09.083 --> 00:10:09.625 Yeah. 00:10:09.625 --> 00:10:12.625 Like you said, that elusive middle ground can be can be a challenge. 00:10:12.625 --> 00:10:15.500 But, I think we've seen that border in so many areas of science 00:10:15.500 --> 00:10:16.708 is that those connections, 00:10:16.708 --> 00:10:19.208 that social well-being is I mean, from longevity, 00:10:19.208 --> 00:10:21.041 like you said, to mental health, it's just vital. 00:10:22.583 --> 00:10:25.708 I know IU was famous for its work, you know, on networks. 00:10:25.708 --> 00:10:27.958 Clearly we have one of the leading sociology 00:10:27.958 --> 00:10:30.875 departments in the nation, frankly, if not the world. 00:10:30.875 --> 00:10:34.208 A major focus of your work is how social networks influence 00:10:34.208 --> 00:10:37.250 these mental health outcomes and the prevalence of, you know, 00:10:37.250 --> 00:10:40.250 friends and family and communities and how they shape care. 00:10:40.541 --> 00:10:42.166 But I'm kind of curious. 00:10:42.166 --> 00:10:45.708 I'm sure as a part of that, there's still lots of misconceptions, 00:10:45.708 --> 00:10:48.958 right, about people and why they're seeking care. 00:10:48.958 --> 00:10:52.000 And, you know, even close family members who want to help 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.916 but are maybe going about it in a way that maybe is well-intentioned, right. 00:10:55.916 --> 00:10:58.666 But as the as you say, the science might not be bearing out. 00:10:58.666 --> 00:11:01.125 So I'm curious kind of what advice you have there. 00:11:01.125 --> 00:11:02.750 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well, I think that one of the things 00:11:02.750 --> 00:11:04.416 that we have been looking at is 00:11:04.708 --> 00:11:08.416 how different people, that's the different groups 00:11:08.416 --> 00:11:12.833 that surround people, whether or not they can see mental illness. 00:11:12.833 --> 00:11:13.583 Right. 00:11:13.583 --> 00:11:17.458 So, in the study of Indiana, you, this, person to person health 00:11:17.458 --> 00:11:21.166 interview study, which is of an ongoing study of 3000 00:11:21.166 --> 00:11:24.166 people scientifically selected the state of Indiana, 00:11:24.416 --> 00:11:27.833 we compared whether or not a state of the art 00:11:27.833 --> 00:11:31.250 diagnostic tool said that the person had mental health problems, 00:11:31.708 --> 00:11:35.083 whether or not they thought they had mental health problems, 00:11:35.083 --> 00:11:36.000 and whether or not 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:39.333 the people around them thought that they had mental health problems. 00:11:39.791 --> 00:11:42.708 An interesting thing is that 00:11:42.708 --> 00:11:47.125 there's very few cases in which there's overlap, right? 00:11:47.333 --> 00:11:51.875 And so try to understand, you know, there are people that we found, people 00:11:51.875 --> 00:11:56.416 who think that that, you know, that the person has a mental health problem, 00:11:56.625 --> 00:11:59.875 but the diagnostic tool says they don't and they don't think they do. 00:12:00.208 --> 00:12:03.125 And that's where we end up getting some coercive care. 00:12:03.125 --> 00:12:07.375 And it's using the resources that we do have, which are pretty rare. 00:12:07.375 --> 00:12:09.750 So we don't really the worried. Well, 00:12:11.083 --> 00:12:11.541 and so 00:12:11.541 --> 00:12:15.458 that, so sort of getting people aligned, their understanding 00:12:15.458 --> 00:12:19.666 of a person's problems, I think is really one of the important things. 00:12:19.666 --> 00:12:24.291 And so it's not about educating the people that might be suffering, 00:12:24.291 --> 00:12:28.875 but the people around them in terms of knowing when something's 00:12:28.875 --> 00:12:32.208 like a day to day problem and knowing when something is, 00:12:32.958 --> 00:12:35.458 or, you know, really crossed over that threshold. 00:12:35.458 --> 00:12:39.000 And that threshold really is functionality, right? 00:12:39.250 --> 00:12:43.125 People can have depression and do very well, 00:12:43.250 --> 00:12:47.125 but it's starts to interfere with their ability 00:12:47.125 --> 00:12:51.541 to live and work and be a family member that need help. 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:55.333 And so, you know, we said the same thing with addiction. 00:12:55.375 --> 00:12:59.541 We know that there are many high functioning people with alcohol problems, 00:12:59.541 --> 00:13:01.791 right? 00:13:01.791 --> 00:13:03.416 But that, that, that 00:13:03.416 --> 00:13:07.333 that makes for a very unhappy person and a very unhappy life. 00:13:07.333 --> 00:13:10.333 And sooner or later, it can't be maintained. 00:13:10.708 --> 00:13:13.500 And so, you know, dealing with those disorders, 00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:16.500 even among people who are highly functional, is good 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:19.500 for them, good for their family, is good for our society. 00:13:19.666 --> 00:13:22.250 [Scott Shackelford:] And just just to drive the point home before we move on, 00:13:22.250 --> 00:13:26.666 if someone listening does want to support a loved one who may be struggling with 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:29.750 have some some stigma or some mental health disorder 00:13:29.750 --> 00:13:31.666 that might be lurking beneath the surface, maybe 00:13:31.666 --> 00:13:34.875 not quite impacting on functionality, as you said, Bernice. 00:13:35.500 --> 00:13:36.625 What would be, do you think? 00:13:36.625 --> 00:13:38.541 Just a useful first step, 00:13:38.541 --> 00:13:41.833 that might be even counter-intuitive, but is borne out by the science? 00:13:42.166 --> 00:13:45.166 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Yeah, I think that there are probably three things. 00:13:45.250 --> 00:13:47.666 First of all, we have now a emergency. 00:13:47.666 --> 00:13:51.416 An emergency line for mental health problems is 988. 00:13:51.750 --> 00:13:53.041 And it's very effective. 00:13:53.041 --> 00:13:54.583 I've actually used it myself. 00:13:54.583 --> 00:13:56.958 I get calls, I am not a clinician. 00:13:56.958 --> 00:13:58.500 I cannot tell you whether or not 00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:02.000 you have a mental illness, but I can't tell you to call 988 00:14:02.333 --> 00:14:06.833 and it will start to guide you to the right places to do that. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.750 I think 00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:12.791 the you know, another thing that we can do is that we can start thinking 00:14:12.791 --> 00:14:17.375 about talking to each other about it, or find someone who, 00:14:17.416 --> 00:14:20.416 you know, has had that problem and talk to them 00:14:20.666 --> 00:14:23.666 because they're likely to have more information. 00:14:24.083 --> 00:14:25.625 And then I think they're there. 00:14:25.625 --> 00:14:30.458 Also, if you're a really, you know, sort of very modern person and you love, 00:14:31.250 --> 00:14:33.666 you love, you know, the computer 00:14:33.666 --> 00:14:37.708 and you love all these websites, there are some very reputable websites. 00:14:37.708 --> 00:14:41.458 And particularly regarding stigma as opposed to just, 00:14:41.708 --> 00:14:44.458 you know, mental illness, if you want to know about mental illness 00:14:44.458 --> 00:14:47.125 and its symptoms, you know, go to Mayo Clinic, 00:14:47.125 --> 00:14:49.791 go to the National Institutes of Health website. 00:14:49.791 --> 00:14:53.541 But if you want to know about stigma, I would suggest that you go to Project 00:14:53.541 --> 00:14:58.625 Healthy Minds, website in New York, which is, targeted toward millennials. 00:14:59.125 --> 00:15:00.458 Or if you're looking at kids and adolescents, 00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:05.041 I would go to the brick change to mind, website 00:15:05.041 --> 00:15:08.791 and look for that, that all of these have information and also 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:12.875 how to start the movement in a direction you might want to do. 00:15:13.166 --> 00:15:18.291 So, I think it depends on whether or not you're looking for medical advice 00:15:18.583 --> 00:15:22.791 or you're looking for the larger advice of how do you live 00:15:23.166 --> 00:15:28.291 with a mental health issue, because one out of 4 or 5 of us during 00:15:28.291 --> 00:15:32.708 our lifetime is going to have an episode that it's not easy to 00:15:33.708 --> 00:15:34.250 detect. 00:15:34.250 --> 00:15:37.250 So I've been doing this research now for a very long time. 00:15:37.791 --> 00:15:42.041 After my husband died, I thought I was really functioning really well. 00:15:42.041 --> 00:15:44.458 You know, I was all the balls in the air, 00:15:44.458 --> 00:15:47.458 you know, things where I'm still teaching my large classes. 00:15:47.625 --> 00:15:52.875 But what happened is that, I realized, when my knees blew out, 00:15:53.458 --> 00:15:56.250 that I was going home after work 00:15:56.250 --> 00:15:59.375 and sitting in a chair, kind of comatose. 00:16:00.083 --> 00:16:04.583 And it was only the physical problem that led me, who's been doing this 00:16:04.583 --> 00:16:09.208 research for, like, four decades, to say, hey, maybe I'm depressed 00:16:09.791 --> 00:16:14.625 and, you know, and, you know, a lot of depressions are, self-remitting 00:16:15.125 --> 00:16:18.916 But even if they are self-remitting because those are called adjustment disorders, 00:16:19.625 --> 00:16:22.791 which often, you know, take care of themselves 00:16:22.791 --> 00:16:25.791 at six months, you know, why would you suffer for six months? 00:16:25.916 --> 00:16:29.000 You know, and so, so it's, it's part 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.000 of the normal fabric of life 00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:36.500 that you're going to have challenges that might throw you off kilter or not. 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:37.791 There is help for it. 00:16:37.791 --> 00:16:40.833 Does it mean that you are going to have a chronic mental illness 00:16:40.833 --> 00:16:42.666 or you're going to be severely mentally ill? 00:16:44.208 --> 00:16:45.750 I think that's really important. 00:16:45.750 --> 00:16:49.125 I don't think enough resources go to people with serious and 00:16:49.166 --> 00:16:51.083 chronic mental illness. 00:16:51.083 --> 00:16:54.250 But I do think that we have a lot of solutions for people 00:16:54.250 --> 00:16:57.666 who are going through these life crises, and they wouldn't have to suffer so much. 00:16:58.166 --> 00:17:02.208 [Scott Shackelford:] But I would so appreciate you sharing that more personal story, Bernice, 00:17:02.208 --> 00:17:04.083 because I'm sure that's going to resonate with a lot of people. 00:17:04.083 --> 00:17:06.333 I mean, you might not realize it, right? 00:17:06.333 --> 00:17:07.583 Yeah, exactly. 00:17:07.583 --> 00:17:08.000 Exactly. 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:11.416 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Literally in my office, because we are the Irsay Institute. 00:17:11.416 --> 00:17:12.750 And, you know, inside 00:17:12.750 --> 00:17:16.041 that is the Indiana Consortium for Mental Health Services Research. 00:17:16.791 --> 00:17:21.083 I will get one call every two weeks by a IU parent, 00:17:21.916 --> 00:17:25.166 by somebody in the community and say, you know, I'm calling you. 00:17:25.208 --> 00:17:26.666 Where can I get help? And, 00:17:28.250 --> 00:17:28.916 you know, and, 00:17:28.916 --> 00:17:31.291 we're not the right people to call, but of course we can, 00:17:31.291 --> 00:17:34.666 because of the research that we've done and our connection to unity, 00:17:34.916 --> 00:17:36.666 we can tell them where to go. 00:17:36.666 --> 00:17:39.833 But, the services are just not adequate. 00:17:39.833 --> 00:17:43.208 Again, the, the treatment that people with cancer receive, 00:17:43.250 --> 00:17:47.000 people with heart conditions receive versus people with mental health problems. 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.791 It's just, it's dismal. 00:17:49.791 --> 00:17:53.833 But there are there are shining lights, which is 00:17:54.166 --> 00:17:57.041 this is my favorite of all of these advances 00:17:57.041 --> 00:18:01.791 is that psychiatry residency is now the hardest residency to get it to. 00:18:02.625 --> 00:18:06.958 And up until the millennial generation, you couldn’t fill those residencies. 00:18:06.958 --> 00:18:11.000 Nobody wanted to go into psychiatry because it was so stigmatized. 00:18:11.500 --> 00:18:15.333 But the millennials have changed the world in more ways than one. 00:18:15.333 --> 00:18:19.625 And one of the good ways they've changed it is that they acknowledge 00:18:19.625 --> 00:18:23.458 mental health and, they are not afraid to talk about it. 00:18:23.458 --> 00:18:27.208 And I think that they really are going to change the world in this area. 00:18:27.625 --> 00:18:30.083 In our studies, we find that 00:18:30.083 --> 00:18:33.916 the younger people in our studies report the lowest levels of stigma, 00:18:34.875 --> 00:18:36.958 and we hope that that means 00:18:36.958 --> 00:18:40.791 that over time we will have a slower change, 00:18:40.791 --> 00:18:45.333 but a real change in the levels of stigma in American society. 00:18:45.750 --> 00:18:50.125 But the other thing we know is that there's a conservatizing effect of age, 00:18:50.125 --> 00:18:54.000 and people tend to get more stigmatizing as they get older. 00:18:54.416 --> 00:18:58.000 So one of the reasons that it's so important for us to continue 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:02.458 these studies to be the only US national monitor of stigma, 00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:05.541 is because we need to know whether or not 00:19:05.541 --> 00:19:10.083 there's something that happens to the aging process, or if really 00:19:10.083 --> 00:19:14.583 this generation is going to change our whole society with regard to stigma. 00:19:14.833 --> 00:19:16.500 We can't answer that yet. 00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:18.291 [Scott Shackelford:] That that that is positive at least. 00:19:18.291 --> 00:19:20.333 So I think you're underscoring that to. 00:19:20.333 --> 00:19:23.541 [Bernice Pescosolido:]I feel like IU's really been at the forefront of this 00:19:23.541 --> 00:19:27.791 because we not only do research, but we also have, you know, 00:19:27.875 --> 00:19:31.708 I think many people know that Glenn Close has worked with us to develop, 00:19:32.791 --> 00:19:34.041 bring change to mind. 00:19:34.041 --> 00:19:36.000 She called me when she was trying. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:37.500 She was thinking about this. 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:40.750 Needless to say, I was surprised and didn't really think it was her. 00:19:40.750 --> 00:19:44.333 But nonetheless, she was looking for a scientific advisor 00:19:44.333 --> 00:19:47.958 for a group that she wanted to start about, 12 years ago. 00:19:48.416 --> 00:19:52.125 And I've been her scientific advisor since then. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.458 You know, so they do high schools, right? 00:19:56.458 --> 00:19:59.583 And so they bring information to high schools and it's peer to peer. 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.000 So with students talking to students, 00:20:03.125 --> 00:20:06.416 we're in 500 high schools in the United States 00:20:06.416 --> 00:20:10.000 now, and I have to say Indiana's a model, a model state 00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:15.000 because, our Department of Mental Health and Addiction, our Department of Education 00:20:15.291 --> 00:20:19.041 have paired together to support over 100 high schools 00:20:19.041 --> 00:20:22.750 in Indiana to have a bring change to mind, peer to peer club. 00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:24.500 And then, 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:28.041 you know, at that point, I said to Glenn, hey, what about colleges, right? 00:20:28.375 --> 00:20:29.458 What do you mean? 00:20:29.458 --> 00:20:31.791 College is my jam? Why are we doing colleges? 00:20:31.791 --> 00:20:38.000 So we did a four year study here, to create Ed, evidence base, a program. 00:20:38.041 --> 00:20:43.583 And, it's been going now here for not quite ten years, probably more like eight. 00:20:43.958 --> 00:20:48.500 And I feel, like I feel that it's been very positive for us 00:20:48.500 --> 00:20:53.833 because I personally know that there are at least five psychiatrists 00:20:54.208 --> 00:20:57.208 who came to IU with a lot of, 00:20:57.625 --> 00:21:01.708 from their family backgrounds, now are practicing psychiatrists 00:21:01.708 --> 00:21:05.500 or they're in medical school in psychiatric residency. 00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:08.250 So I know that five people, they'll change the world. 00:21:08.250 --> 00:21:13.083 But if we could bring you bring change to my to every college and university, 00:21:13.125 --> 00:21:17.250 we could probably do a whole lot in changing the psychiatric 00:21:17.250 --> 00:21:20.958 that the shortage of psychiatrist in the United States. 00:21:21.416 --> 00:21:23.416 [Scott Shackelford:] Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. 00:21:23.416 --> 00:21:25.916 Well, this is some great examples of how I used, 00:21:25.916 --> 00:21:28.000 you know, leading leading the charge nationally. 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.041 And thanks to your work. 00:21:29.041 --> 00:21:32.375 And it reminds me of one of, Elinor Ostrom quotes, 00:21:32.375 --> 00:21:35.500 which I know she was a mentor of yours is a little by little bit by bit. 00:21:35.791 --> 00:21:38.541 That's a family by family, community by community. 00:21:38.541 --> 00:21:40.458 So much good can be done on so many levels. 00:21:40.458 --> 00:21:42.625 And I think this is a great example of that. 00:21:42.625 --> 00:21:45.000 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well, I think, you know, I think we're ready. 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.625 I think we have done eight years of, of work on this. 00:21:48.625 --> 00:21:50.791 We have a whole set of materials. 00:21:50.791 --> 00:21:53.625 It's it would be free to colleges and universities. 00:21:53.625 --> 00:21:56.250 We don't intend to monetize this. 00:21:56.250 --> 00:22:01.166 But it does require, it does require, an infrastructure 00:22:01.166 --> 00:22:04.583 because there are other college programs and they're wonderful. 00:22:04.583 --> 00:22:04.916 Right. 00:22:04.916 --> 00:22:08.500 So there's active minds that, NAMI has a program. 00:22:08.708 --> 00:22:10.416 But when I came here, 00:22:11.458 --> 00:22:13.416 people would talk to me, students would come to me 00:22:13.416 --> 00:22:16.875 and say, you know, where's our Active Minds chapter? 00:22:16.875 --> 00:22:19.875 Where's, you know, 00:22:19.875 --> 00:22:23.583 you know, NAMI chapter because they don't have an infrastructure. 00:22:23.583 --> 00:22:25.916 And I'm not talking about a massive infrastructure, 00:22:25.916 --> 00:22:28.208 but a basic infrastructure. 00:22:28.208 --> 00:22:30.958 They come and go with student interest. 00:22:30.958 --> 00:22:34.875 And so when you have, a structure like we do, 00:22:34.875 --> 00:22:38.291 which is literally like a staff and a half, right? 00:22:39.166 --> 00:22:43.666 You know, we have this is now been almost a decade that we have been operating. 00:22:43.666 --> 00:22:46.666 And under President Whitten, we, 00:22:47.625 --> 00:22:50.583 she, she helped us put it on every campus and fund it. 00:22:50.583 --> 00:22:56.291 But, tragically, with the budget cuts, it it will no longer be funded now. 00:22:56.625 --> 00:23:00.500 No, I can guarantee that the Bloomington campus you bring change to 00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:04.416 my program will continue as long as a lot of you know. 00:23:04.416 --> 00:23:07.416 But I can't guarantee that for the other campuses. So. 00:23:07.458 --> 00:23:11.541 And I think that that I have had many colleges and universities 00:23:11.541 --> 00:23:16.041 asking for the materials part, and I would be happy to send them to them. 00:23:16.041 --> 00:23:19.166 But it's the the evidence base depends 00:23:19.166 --> 00:23:22.250 on having this continued contact 00:23:22.708 --> 00:23:27.666 and having this kind of high touch that those other programs don't have. 00:23:27.958 --> 00:23:30.625 And also, you know, we we work with active minds. 00:23:30.625 --> 00:23:31.541 We think they're great. 00:23:31.541 --> 00:23:34.541 They have this one great event they do called Post it, 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:37.583 where kids write on post-it notes. 00:23:37.583 --> 00:23:40.583 You know what what they worry about, 00:23:41.250 --> 00:23:44.333 and they're anonymous and then they're posted and then there's 00:23:44.333 --> 00:23:47.458 an event that goes with it and, you know, it's fabulous. 00:23:47.458 --> 00:23:50.458 And to get their postcards cost us 500. 00:23:50.458 --> 00:23:53.250 And that is what we wanted. Their speaker, it was like 10,000. 00:23:53.250 --> 00:23:57.041 And we were like, you know, I think we could do this without that. So 00:23:58.250 --> 00:24:00.875 but that but they have they've maintained a large staff 00:24:00.875 --> 00:24:04.375 and and that's, but it's a large centralized staff 00:24:04.583 --> 00:24:08.875 where you could get their materials using science. 00:24:09.625 --> 00:24:13.458 We have found that the principles on which we base 00:24:13.625 --> 00:24:17.250 you bring change to mind comes up with a different structure 00:24:17.833 --> 00:24:22.000 that, I think has been very successful in sustaining what's happening here. 00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:25.083 So I'm very excited about that and, 00:24:25.083 --> 00:24:29.250 very excited about, how Indiana has been on the forefront of the call. 00:24:29.541 --> 00:24:34.458 High school programs, so successful that in Indiana, 00:24:34.458 --> 00:24:37.916 they asked bring change to might to develop a middle school program. 00:24:38.583 --> 00:24:41.458 Now, of course, not every high school is welcoming. 00:24:41.458 --> 00:24:44.375 But, you know, I think that the 00:24:44.375 --> 00:24:47.375 the people who are, taking care of that at, 00:24:47.625 --> 00:24:50.916 the high school level are working very hard for the students. 00:24:50.916 --> 00:24:53.916 And again, it's not a lot of staff in Indiana. 00:24:53.916 --> 00:24:57.625 I think it's two people to do that, the whole state, 00:24:57.625 --> 00:25:00.958 because of their connection to the national infrastructure. 00:25:00.958 --> 00:25:05.666 And I do the same thing for colleges, but we'll just keep funding for it. 00:25:05.666 --> 00:25:07.916 But, you know, we'll do what we can do. 00:25:07.916 --> 00:25:08.833 [Scott Shackelford:] Absolutely. 00:25:08.833 --> 00:25:12.000 I know you will, Bernice, just kind of to to. 00:25:12.041 --> 00:25:13.875 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well I’m like you in that way Scott. I don't take no. 00:25:13.875 --> 00:25:15.500 very easily. 00:25:15.500 --> 00:25:16.375 [Scott Shackelford:] That's right. 00:25:16.375 --> 00:25:16.791 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Yeah. 00:25:16.791 --> 00:25:19.791 my, my mantra is, 00:25:20.500 --> 00:25:23.250 you know, if you're not going to help, I could still help you. 00:25:23.250 --> 00:25:25.250 But if you're not going to help. Get out of my way. 00:25:25.250 --> 00:25:28.708 [Scott Shackelford:] I hear you now, that's and that's and you've you've shown out. 00:25:28.708 --> 00:25:30.500 But the the power of that, 00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:34.083 that perspective can have throughout your long and storied career here. 00:25:34.250 --> 00:25:36.083 Just just two final questions. 00:25:36.083 --> 00:25:37.916 If it's okay before we have to conclude here. 00:25:37.916 --> 00:25:40.916 One is, you know, we just had the Winter Olympics. 00:25:40.916 --> 00:25:42.416 We're looking ahead to the World Cup. 00:25:42.416 --> 00:25:43.916 And mental health conversations 00:25:43.916 --> 00:25:47.375 have obviously been really visible in athletics and public life. 00:25:47.666 --> 00:25:48.416 They always are. 00:25:48.416 --> 00:25:51.541 But especially now, you know, culture plays a role 00:25:51.541 --> 00:25:54.916 in reinforcing and reducing stigmas and that domain. 00:25:54.916 --> 00:25:59.375 But I know that's broadly an area at, say, around 00:25:59.375 --> 00:26:03.541 socio medical science and mental health that you've been really focusing on. 00:26:03.541 --> 00:26:06.541 And I was curious if you'd like to share any insights there. 00:26:06.750 --> 00:26:10.333 [Bernice Pescosolido:] I think it's very important because they're it's very important 00:26:10.333 --> 00:26:13.333 and it's very timely because it's not like 00:26:13.541 --> 00:26:17.416 these are the only people coming out with mental health issues. 00:26:17.916 --> 00:26:21.791 You have people like Patty Duke and other actors coming out in the 60s. 00:26:22.125 --> 00:26:25.875 But we had reached the tipping point, and the tipping point 00:26:25.916 --> 00:26:28.875 has been created by the millennials. 00:26:28.875 --> 00:26:32.375 And so, this is really, I think, a moment for us. 00:26:32.375 --> 00:26:34.791 But I don't think it's enough. 00:26:34.791 --> 00:26:39.250 It's not enough to have the have people with celebrity status come out, 00:26:39.250 --> 00:26:40.375 but it sure helps. 00:26:40.375 --> 00:26:42.500 And it helps in the following way. 00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:45.458 And if it guides the work that we do, which is, 00:26:45.458 --> 00:26:50.041 you know, if we have some incredibly famous psychiatrist from Harvard 00:26:50.041 --> 00:26:52.791 come to give a talk, the people who are going to come 00:26:52.791 --> 00:26:55.250 are the people who are who care about the issue. 00:26:55.250 --> 00:26:59.458 The key to unraveling stigma is to get outside the choir, 00:26:59.916 --> 00:27:03.416 to get those people who think it's not relevant for them, 00:27:03.791 --> 00:27:06.083 that this is never going to happen to them. 00:27:06.083 --> 00:27:09.083 They don't know anybody with these issues. 00:27:09.291 --> 00:27:10.875 Get them in the door. 00:27:10.875 --> 00:27:15.166 And that's again, why the principles that underlie bring change to mind 00:27:15.166 --> 00:27:18.875 and you bring change to mind in particular, takes a very different tact. 00:27:19.166 --> 00:27:22.708 And that's where these people who are celebrities 00:27:22.708 --> 00:27:26.750 speaking out matters, because we can use that in a way. 00:27:26.750 --> 00:27:30.750 So for example, we have a thing called the Elephant Park 00:27:30.750 --> 00:27:33.750 in, you bring change to mind and that is, 00:27:34.208 --> 00:27:38.000 we have these tech foot blow up elephants, which attract students first thing. 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:38.833 Right. 00:27:38.833 --> 00:27:43.708 The first elephant is purple, and that is what's what's your elephant in the room? 00:27:43.916 --> 00:27:44.875 Right. 00:27:44.875 --> 00:27:47.708 And the week that Taylor Swift 00:27:47.708 --> 00:27:51.708 was finishing her concerts in Indy, we blew up that purple elephant. 00:27:51.708 --> 00:27:54.708 And the purple elephant had a friendship bracelet. 00:27:54.750 --> 00:27:58.500 Giant friendship bracelet that said, I'm in my mental health era 00:27:59.333 --> 00:28:02.625 that brought the kids in, they made friendship bracelets 00:28:02.625 --> 00:28:03.708 a la Taylor Swift. 00:28:03.708 --> 00:28:05.750 But they were mental health affirmative. 00:28:05.750 --> 00:28:08.166 We had 500 students come to that event. 00:28:08.166 --> 00:28:09.291 [Scott Shackelford:] Oh, no doubt. 00:28:09.291 --> 00:28:10.708 [Scott Shackelford:] No doubt [Bernice Pescosolido:] in the door 00:28:10.708 --> 00:28:13.500 The second part is the Green elephant. 00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:16.625 And the green elephant is introducing them 00:28:16.625 --> 00:28:19.625 to the resources available for mental health. 00:28:19.833 --> 00:28:24.291 And that is where we do the, you know, providing information 00:28:24.291 --> 00:28:28.708 about campus services, other services, these websites we've been talking about. 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.375 Then the final giant elephant is a multicolor elephant. 00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:35.500 And the multicolor elephant, 00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:38.416 is about how we need to think about community. 00:28:38.416 --> 00:28:38.791 Right. 00:28:38.791 --> 00:28:42.666 That all different colors make a better community. 00:28:43.041 --> 00:28:47.333 And, but to get them there, I mean, the elephants are great to bring them in, 00:28:47.541 --> 00:28:51.166 but there is always a learning thing that they have to participate 00:28:51.166 --> 00:28:54.791 in to get the swag because they are into swag. 00:28:55.041 --> 00:28:59.458 And and again, working off of popular culture helps us a lot. 00:28:59.458 --> 00:29:04.583 So the last thing the purple elephant we had, was called Unboxing Stigma. 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:08.750 And the box was a box, that had a Labooboo in it, 00:29:08.833 --> 00:29:11.791 right, of which I had no idea what a Labooboo was. 00:29:11.791 --> 00:29:13.708 And if you don't know, look it up. 00:29:13.708 --> 00:29:16.250 They're these ugly little trolls. 00:29:16.250 --> 00:29:18.125 And they're very hot right now. 00:29:18.125 --> 00:29:21.416 And again, we had over 300 students come to that event. 00:29:21.625 --> 00:29:26.916 And so the arc over the semester really does, think about yourself, 00:29:27.166 --> 00:29:30.500 know that there's help be part of a community of change. 00:29:30.916 --> 00:29:35.708 And so, our student group right now, I cannot say how wonderful they are. 00:29:35.708 --> 00:29:39.625 They are planting things around Hunger games coming out next fall with Glenn 00:29:39.625 --> 00:29:40.916 Close. Be in it. 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:42.666 They're good. 00:29:42.666 --> 00:29:46.375 They're doing a heated rivalry event, I think, this Saturday. 00:29:46.708 --> 00:29:49.416 So those are the things that matter 00:29:49.416 --> 00:29:52.416 in terms of making sure you get to the kids 00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:57.750 who really are not thinking about this, and they're the ones who crash, 00:29:57.750 --> 00:30:01.500 whether they have a mental health problem because they have not thought about it. 00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:02.666 They don't think it's them. 00:30:02.666 --> 00:30:04.541 They think it's something else. 00:30:04.541 --> 00:30:08.708 So we're working at every level, also our workforce development. 00:30:09.083 --> 00:30:13.125 And so it's just the Irsay and the Irsay family 00:30:13.125 --> 00:30:17.166 and the Indianapolis Colts have been such a help for us. 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.416 Your spirit, their willingness to come out in the shadows 00:30:21.833 --> 00:30:24.833 has just made a huge difference for us. 00:30:25.041 --> 00:30:25.875 [Scott Shackelford:] That's fantastic. 00:30:25.875 --> 00:30:26.291 Bernice. 00:30:26.291 --> 00:30:28.916 And I know, frankly, I think we just scratched the surface. 00:30:28.916 --> 00:30:32.166 And I'd love to continue this for some hours, but we're, 00:30:32.208 --> 00:30:35.208 you know, as a as a closing question, 00:30:35.291 --> 00:30:39.625 you know, when we finally, you know, live in a world where mental health illness 00:30:39.625 --> 00:30:44.625 is treated with the same dignity and urgency as any other health condition, 00:30:44.875 --> 00:30:45.166 you know, 00:30:45.166 --> 00:30:47.375 what part of that legacy will have started, 00:30:47.375 --> 00:30:50.125 you know, right here at IU and frankly, with yourself 00:30:50.125 --> 00:30:53.541 as you look back on your career, since I know I'm not breaking 00:30:53.541 --> 00:30:57.041 any news here, that you'll be retiring unfortunately, before too long. 00:30:57.583 --> 00:31:01.333 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Well, yes, I will be retiring, but that doesn't mean I'm leaving. 00:31:02.125 --> 00:31:05.125 I just think it's very important to make room for the young. 00:31:05.250 --> 00:31:07.166 And so that is why I'm retiring. 00:31:07.166 --> 00:31:10.958 But, that new director, whoever she may be, 00:31:12.500 --> 00:31:14.541 has guaranteed that I get to keep my office. 00:31:14.541 --> 00:31:16.041 I still have research grants. 00:31:16.041 --> 00:31:20.041 I still am connected to the you bring change to mind program. 00:31:20.041 --> 00:31:22.625 And I will try to be working on development, 00:31:22.625 --> 00:31:26.458 bringing the community more into the support for these kinds 00:31:26.458 --> 00:31:29.458 of things, whether it's here at IU or in their communities. 00:31:30.291 --> 00:31:35.291 And so I think it's the right time, for me to sort of move away. 00:31:35.291 --> 00:31:40.166 I already miss freshman, but, I taught my last 200 00:31:40.541 --> 00:31:43.875 kid, intro class called Medicine in America. 00:31:44.583 --> 00:31:46.666 Last fall, and I already missed them. 00:31:46.666 --> 00:31:50.541 But there is a time when you have to know it's the right time. 00:31:50.541 --> 00:31:52.791 And we still have a lot of work to do. 00:31:52.791 --> 00:31:55.625 And I'm sure that the Irsay can carry on. 00:31:55.625 --> 00:31:57.375 But you're not rid of me yet. 00:31:59.458 --> 00:32:00.208 [Scott Shackelford:] That's right. 00:32:00.208 --> 00:32:04.166 And you've left again, just such an amazing legacy at Irsay. 00:32:04.166 --> 00:32:04.791 and otherwise. 00:32:04.791 --> 00:32:07.791 So just thank you Bernice, for all you've done. 00:32:08.125 --> 00:32:12.125 To, you know, cast additional light on the science of stigma 00:32:12.166 --> 00:32:13.041 and the importance 00:32:13.041 --> 00:32:17.458 of treating mental health just like any other aspect of our health. 00:32:17.875 --> 00:32:19.916 And for all you do to enrich our community here 00:32:19.916 --> 00:32:21.833 in Bloomington, around the state and beyond. 00:32:21.833 --> 00:32:23.375 And thanks for being on the podcast. 00:32:23.375 --> 00:32:25.541 [Bernice Pescosolido:] And it it is thanks to the IU community 00:32:25.541 --> 00:32:27.750 and the people of the state of Indiana 00:32:27.750 --> 00:32:29.333 have been incredible. 00:32:29.333 --> 00:32:31.333 So we continue, 00:32:31.333 --> 00:32:35.125 if you want to help us, give us a call and, we'll see what we could do. 00:32:36.083 --> 00:32:37.500 [Scott Shackelford:] Thank you so much, Bernice. 00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:38.000 [Bernice Pescosolido:] Okay. 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:39.750 [Scott Shackelford:] Oh, it's a pleasure. 00:32:39.750 --> 00:32:41.208 It's an honor and a pleasure. 00:32:41.208 --> 00:32:43.166 So please don't hesitate. Guys. 00:32:43.166 --> 00:32:45.375 Reach out to the Irsay Institute. 00:32:45.375 --> 00:32:48.291 Bernice Pescosolido in particular. 00:32:48.291 --> 00:32:52.791 And thank you for joining us today on this episode of the We Are IU podcast. 00:32:52.791 --> 00:32:54.083 See you next time. 00:32:54.083 --> 00:32:57.833 [Narrator:] Thanks for joining us for another episode of We Are IU 00:32:58.916 --> 00:33:02.250 Your home for fascinating conversations with thought leaders, 00:33:02.375 --> 00:33:06.500 legends, and visionaries from the university we know and love. 00:33:07.958 --> 00:33:08.708 New episodes 00:33:08.708 --> 00:33:11.500 available monthly at myiu.org.